Comments on: How beer makes a neighborhood http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/ Rego Park, Forest Hills, Kew Gardens, Briarwood Wed, 07 Jan 2009 03:14:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Zora http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-1380 Zora Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:05:24 +0000 http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-1380 We're talking about two different perceptions of the neighborhood, of course: What makes Astoria what it is to a white hipster who might consider moving there when rents are too high in Williamsburg, vs. what makes Astoria what it is to someone who loves Astoria for its own sake, pre-tenuous-hipsterizing. I don't think the hipsters (whoever "they" are--I admit I objectively could be mistaken for one) have made more than a superficial change, in a few businesses, which I'm happy to patronize, but I'm not bowing down and thanking the sweet lord that they finally came to the neighborhood. (Good CSAs are nice, though.) But I would also say that Astoria _is_ different from a lot of the rest of Queens in that every block is noticeably ethnically mixed, unlike, say, Jackson Heights, where you've got the Indo-Pak blocks, and then the Colombian blocks, etc. There are a couple of tiny strips of one type of business (N. Africa on Steinway, a little Brazilian pocket at 36th Ave, Greek cafes on 30th Ave), but after that it's a real patchwork, and it seems to be shifting all the time. I remember when I heard the first Brazilian on the train at Ditmars, and when I heard a Greek old lady saying cranky things to a Turk who'd just moved in. That still all drowns out whatever hipsters talk about on the train (oh wait--they don't talk--they listen to iPods!). (Or maybe I just know Astoria better than other Queens neighborhoods, and can see the subtle differences. Like a ZZ Top fan can distinguish among their songs.) But, short answer is: to give credit to whitey hipsters for "making" Astoria is a real discredit to all the other people who live there. We’re talking about two different perceptions of the neighborhood, of course: What makes Astoria what it is to a white hipster who might consider moving there when rents are too high in Williamsburg, vs. what makes Astoria what it is to someone who loves Astoria for its own sake, pre-tenuous-hipsterizing. I don’t think the hipsters (whoever “they” are–I admit I objectively could be mistaken for one) have made more than a superficial change, in a few businesses, which I’m happy to patronize, but I’m not bowing down and thanking the sweet lord that they finally came to the neighborhood. (Good CSAs are nice, though.)

But I would also say that Astoria _is_ different from a lot of the rest of Queens in that every block is noticeably ethnically mixed, unlike, say, Jackson Heights, where you’ve got the Indo-Pak blocks, and then the Colombian blocks, etc. There are a couple of tiny strips of one type of business (N. Africa on Steinway, a little Brazilian pocket at 36th Ave, Greek cafes on 30th Ave), but after that it’s a real patchwork, and it seems to be shifting all the time. I remember when I heard the first Brazilian on the train at Ditmars, and when I heard a Greek old lady saying cranky things to a Turk who’d just moved in. That still all drowns out whatever hipsters talk about on the train (oh wait–they don’t talk–they listen to iPods!).

(Or maybe I just know Astoria better than other Queens neighborhoods, and can see the subtle differences. Like a ZZ Top fan can distinguish among their songs.)

But, short answer is: to give credit to whitey hipsters for “making” Astoria is a real discredit to all the other people who live there.

]]> By: Steve http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-1298 Steve Sat, 11 Aug 2007 03:00:31 +0000 http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-1298 <p>But there are tons of neighborhoods in Queens with that sort of ethnic diversity. Most of the people moving to Astoria these days are the young professionals and quasi-hipsters, if the crowd on my rides there on the N train are any indication. They're what sets Astoria apart, for better or for worse, for people who aren't members of one of those immigrant communities. When I was a kid, "Astoria" had exactly the same implications as "Elmhurst" or "Woodside" or "Richmond Hill." Personally, I think there's a lot to like about all those neighborhoods. But the name "Astoria" carries a different weight these days, in the media and among the general populace, and I really do think the beer hall has played some part in fomenting that.</p> But there are tons of neighborhoods in Queens with that sort of ethnic diversity. Most of the people moving to Astoria these days are the young professionals and quasi-hipsters, if the crowd on my rides there on the N train are any indication. They’re what sets Astoria apart, for better or for worse, for people who aren’t members of one of those immigrant communities. When I was a kid, “Astoria” had exactly the same implications as “Elmhurst” or “Woodside” or “Richmond Hill.” Personally, I think there’s a lot to like about all those neighborhoods. But the name “Astoria” carries a different weight these days, in the media and among the general populace, and I really do think the beer hall has played some part in fomenting that.

]]> By: Zora http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-1297 Zora Sat, 11 Aug 2007 02:24:22 +0000 http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-1297 I hate to break it to you, but the beer hall has _not_ played a significant role in making Astoria what it is today. What makes Astoria what it is is not a bunch of semi-hipsters who like drinking beer outside, but the Brazilians, Croatians, Moroccans, Bengalis, Egyptians, Greeks, Italians, Bohemians (with a big B), and all the other immigrants who live here and keep moving here every year. (Even the owner of the "coolest" bar here is Greek.) So-called yuppies (read: white people) may be opening a few cute outposts, but that isn't the essence of the neighborhood, and I'm glad. I moved here nine years ago exactly for the ethnic mix (and the grocery stores that come from it), and I'm relieved the neighborhood has never become officially fashionable. It kind of cracked me up when people "discovered" the beer garden. If that's the first time you've come here, and you like it, that's nice and all, but I'm not really thrilled that you'll be my neighbor, because I suspect you don't appreciate the majority of the neighborhood. I hate to break it to you, but the beer hall has _not_ played a significant role in making Astoria what it is today. What makes Astoria what it is is not a bunch of semi-hipsters who like drinking beer outside, but the Brazilians, Croatians, Moroccans, Bengalis, Egyptians, Greeks, Italians, Bohemians (with a big B), and all the other immigrants who live here and keep moving here every year. (Even the owner of the “coolest” bar here is Greek.)

So-called yuppies (read: white people) may be opening a few cute outposts, but that isn’t the essence of the neighborhood, and I’m glad. I moved here nine years ago exactly for the ethnic mix (and the grocery stores that come from it), and I’m relieved the neighborhood has never become officially fashionable.

It kind of cracked me up when people “discovered” the beer garden. If that’s the first time you’ve come here, and you like it, that’s nice and all, but I’m not really thrilled that you’ll be my neighbor, because I suspect you don’t appreciate the majority of the neighborhood.

]]> By: Steve http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-321 Steve Sun, 03 Jun 2007 05:57:37 +0000 http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-321 Yeah, people keep saying the suburban thing, but alls I know is that I've lived on (suburban) Long Island and I've lived in Manhattan, and living in Forest Hills -- while somewhere between the two -- is definitely closer to living in Manhattan. There is definitely something to be said for safe, cheap and close to Midtown. Yeah, people keep saying the suburban thing, but alls I know is that I’ve lived on (suburban) Long Island and I’ve lived in Manhattan, and living in Forest Hills — while somewhere between the two — is definitely closer to living in Manhattan.

There is definitely something to be said for safe, cheap and close to Midtown.

]]> By: Susan http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-316 Susan Sat, 02 Jun 2007 14:17:07 +0000 http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-316 Interesting debate. I've lived in Astoria for nine years, and still haven't fallen in love with it. I keep waiting for it to get pretty, but I don't think that's ever gonna happen. I want to know what homeowners are thinking when they put tar-paper siding on their houses. And the new buildings (Fedders specimens, as Queens Crap calls them) aren't any more appealing. So why do I stay? Three reasons: it's safe, cheap and close to midtown. My commute is 30 minutes, door to door, and my gym costs less than $300 a year. And the food here is good, too. I love the UWS, but they don't have a Mundo. Forest Hills is beautiful, but I get the sense out there that it's just one step away from living on Long Island. Am I wrong in detecting a more suburban feel out there? The drivers in Astoria are appalling. They think nothing of making three-point turns in the middle of traffic. This baffles me. Interesting debate. I’ve lived in Astoria for nine years, and still haven’t fallen in love with it. I keep waiting for it to get pretty, but I don’t think that’s ever gonna happen. I want to know what homeowners are thinking when they put tar-paper siding on their houses. And the new buildings (Fedders specimens, as Queens Crap calls them) aren’t any more appealing.

So why do I stay? Three reasons: it’s safe, cheap and close to midtown. My commute is 30 minutes, door to door, and my gym costs less than $300 a year. And the food here is good, too. I love the UWS, but they don’t have a Mundo.

Forest Hills is beautiful, but I get the sense out there that it’s just one step away from living on Long Island. Am I wrong in detecting a more suburban feel out there?

The drivers in Astoria are appalling. They think nothing of making three-point turns in the middle of traffic. This baffles me.

]]> By: megc http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-308 megc Fri, 01 Jun 2007 19:15:38 +0000 http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-308 Actually, in all my years of driving, I've found the worst experiences here in NY. And by that I mean all of NYC metro area including Long Island. Perhaps I'm just spoiled by the traffic engineering on the west coast, but I find that here there is not enough space to drive comfortably. Freeway onramps especially get my goat, they are waaaaay too short for anyone to get up speed before entering traffic. I drove while on LI and I found the biggest bozos there. Just awful. I'm frightened to drive in Manhattan. I hope I don't have to do it very much in the future. I think if Astoria floats your boat, then great! If Forest Hills does, great! Not everyone is looking for the same thing. I actually like the elevated subways, especially in the summer. It's nice to have the fresh air as opposed to the stagnant sizzling air in the underground subways. In the winter it kind of sucks though. And I've also had a pretty good experience with the N/W. I detest the 1 and the 7 more. The 7 during commute times at QBPlaza is particulary insane. Yuck. Actually, in all my years of driving, I’ve found the worst experiences here in NY. And by that I mean all of NYC metro area including Long Island. Perhaps I’m just spoiled by the traffic engineering on the west coast, but I find that here there is not enough space to drive comfortably. Freeway onramps especially get my goat, they are waaaaay too short for anyone to get up speed before entering traffic. I drove while on LI and I found the biggest bozos there. Just awful. I’m frightened to drive in Manhattan. I hope I don’t have to do it very much in the future.

I think if Astoria floats your boat, then great! If Forest Hills does, great! Not everyone is looking for the same thing.

I actually like the elevated subways, especially in the summer. It’s nice to have the fresh air as opposed to the stagnant sizzling air in the underground subways. In the winter it kind of sucks though. And I’ve also had a pretty good experience with the N/W. I detest the 1 and the 7 more. The 7 during commute times at QBPlaza is particulary insane. Yuck.

]]> By: Steve http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-282 Steve Tue, 29 May 2007 19:34:34 +0000 http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-282 The overhead subway is bad, really bad, and as someone who detests the cold, I love waiting for the F train underground in January when I know I could be freezing to death on an elevated platform waiting for an N train that never comes. I didn't know Astoria had a reputation for bad drivers, but I <em>do</em> know that I was driving there once when, as I was going through a green light -- not a yellow light, a green light -- a car heading in the other direction attempted to turn left in front of me. I hit the brakes so as not to broadside him, and when he stopped short, too, I continued through the light, which was still green. As I passed, he screamed at me, "What, you can't even give someone a break, you white fuck?" So yeah. The neighborhood definitely is getting more yuppified, if not more explicitly hip. That's OK by me. I'm not really a member of either of those groups, though people who haven't met me commonly assume I am -- I just like what they bring to the table. As I always tell people, when I moved here, there were definitely lots more people being pushed in wheelchairs and lots fewer people being pushed in strollers. The overhead subway is bad, really bad, and as someone who detests the cold, I love waiting for the F train underground in January when I know I could be freezing to death on an elevated platform waiting for an N train that never comes.

I didn’t know Astoria had a reputation for bad drivers, but I do know that I was driving there once when, as I was going through a green light — not a yellow light, a green light — a car heading in the other direction attempted to turn left in front of me. I hit the brakes so as not to broadside him, and when he stopped short, too, I continued through the light, which was still green. As I passed, he screamed at me, “What, you can’t even give someone a break, you white fuck?” So yeah.

The neighborhood definitely is getting more yuppified, if not more explicitly hip. That’s OK by me. I’m not really a member of either of those groups, though people who haven’t met me commonly assume I am — I just like what they bring to the table. As I always tell people, when I moved here, there were definitely lots more people being pushed in wheelchairs and lots fewer people being pushed in strollers.

]]> By: Foresthills72 http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-281 Foresthills72 Tue, 29 May 2007 19:06:57 +0000 http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-281 I've never understood the appeal behind Astoria. I love Tratoria Le'Encontro and Cup, and I know they have better restaurants than us. That's annoying, I'll give you that. But the layout of the streets, the overhead subway, the worst drivers on Earth, the poor upkeep of Steinway St, it just doesn't do anything for me. If it makes you feel any better, I was out last night doing my Sunday night (I guess it was Monday last night) Natural shopping and the crowd both on the street and in the store was the youngest and hippest I've ever seen in Forest Hills. Ironic t-shirts, same-sex couples, the whole bit. I’ve never understood the appeal behind Astoria. I love Tratoria Le’Encontro and Cup, and I know they have better restaurants than us. That’s annoying, I’ll give you that. But the layout of the streets, the overhead subway, the worst drivers on Earth, the poor upkeep of Steinway St, it just doesn’t do anything for me.

If it makes you feel any better, I was out last night doing my Sunday night (I guess it was Monday last night) Natural shopping and the crowd both on the street and in the store was the youngest and hippest I’ve ever seen in Forest Hills. Ironic t-shirts, same-sex couples, the whole bit.

]]> By: Steve http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-280 Steve Tue, 29 May 2007 18:49:24 +0000 http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-280 Well, see, overall, I don't really envy Astoria, per se -- it's similarly priced enough to Forest Hills that I could probably afford to live there, I suppose, yet I choose to live here instead. So obviously I think that as far as I'm concerned, at least, Forest Hills is a better place to live. But that doesn't mean that there are certain things I envy about Astoria -- better restaurants, cafes, a generally cooler crowd. And those are things I think we could gain by looking to Astoria's example. Well, see, overall, I don’t really envy Astoria, per se — it’s similarly priced enough to Forest Hills that I could probably afford to live there, I suppose, yet I choose to live here instead. So obviously I think that as far as I’m concerned, at least, Forest Hills is a better place to live. But that doesn’t mean that there are certain things I envy about Astoria — better restaurants, cafes, a generally cooler crowd. And those are things I think we could gain by looking to Astoria’s example.

]]> By: Foresthills72 http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-279 Foresthills72 Tue, 29 May 2007 18:45:20 +0000 http://www.queenscentral.com/2007/05/25/how-beer-makes-a-neighborhood/#comment-279 I can buy neighborhood envy about Grammercy Park or Sutton Place, or even Dumbo. But Astoria? I think we can aim a little higher than that. I can buy neighborhood envy about Grammercy Park or Sutton Place, or even Dumbo. But Astoria? I think we can aim a little higher than that.

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