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• I could not agree more. Apparently, Duane Reade fought with the Halal guy to the point where he moved up the block. Apparently they preferred the look of the drugged-out homeless couple who were always lying on the sidewalk in front of the store before the vendors came along.

  As has been pointed out elsewhere, it is difficult to get decent produce in the area. Thus, the fruit vendors are a real boon for those of us who don’t always have the time to walk the 4 blocks each way to Natural.

  I called Melinda Katz’s office (718-544-8800) to voice my fervent support for the vendors. I was told that mine was only the 2nd positive call they had received compared with 45 complaints.

  Posted by origami
  on July 9th, 2007 at 8:03 am

• As someone who stays at Parker Towers and commutes to Manhattan every day, I find the street vendors a welcome sight (what’s so wrong with letting a bit of the city into forest hills ?! I mean you find ten of these guys at every block near my office) …

  … plus I love the nuts !

  Posted by kopter
  on July 9th, 2007 at 11:35 am

• If you cannot find decent produce, there is no way you are even looking. Natural Food store and the fruit store right by the Key Food on 71st have excellent produce.

  Posted by Anonymous
  on July 9th, 2007 at 11:41 am

• The fruit store by Key Food does not have decent produce. It’s okay if you need an onion or a head of lettuce but that’s it.

  Posted by fercrash
  on July 9th, 2007 at 11:53 am

• Key Food 71st produce ranges from mediocre to incredibly awful! You have a taste bud deficiency if you think anything from Key Food qualifies as ‘excellent’. Buying produce there is a total crapshoot, you will get lucky 1 time out of 10 and get a decent melon or peach. Otherwise, most of it is taste-free, underipe, overripe, etc. Natural has much better stuff but at a price. The fruit vendor guys had nice produce at decent prices. Keep Em!

  Posted by rivercrossing
  on July 9th, 2007 at 1:58 pm

• If you read my post, it clearly stated the fruit store BY key food; NOT key food.

  Posted by Anonymous
  on July 9th, 2007 at 3:47 pm

• Anyone dumping grease down the street drains should be banned from ever having a cart again. That’s criminal. And no, I don’t like the smell of those greasy nuts. Of course shop owners don’t like the vendors. You must know how high rents and taxes are. Too bad there isn’t a real farmers market in the summer instead of just another vendor selling the same unripe fruit from thousands of miles away.

  Posted by fran
  on July 9th, 2007 at 3:50 pm

• I’m all for great produce, and would love too see options other in Natural…providing they’re not street carts. I have more issues with Halal stands, roasted nuts, weenies, etc. than the produce carts, but to be fair, I say all or nothing. In my opinion, the carts are unsightly and unsanitary and they’re not adding much, if anything, in the way of good eats.

  Posted by Ignatius
  on July 9th, 2007 at 4:54 pm

• “As someone who stays at Parker Towers and commutes to Manhattan every day, I find the street vendors a welcome sight (what’s so wrong with letting a bit of the city into forest hills ?! I mean you find ten of these guys at every block near my office) …”

  I can think of some Manhattan elements that I would like to see in Forest Hills, like, I don’t know, exciting restaurants run by young, inspired chefs who want to see the town rise about culinary mediocrity. Or, you know, we could just settle for Halal carts which are guaranteed to dissuade any restaurant from opening. If we’re going to follow the leader, let’s do it with things that make us proud.

  Posted by Ignatius
  on July 9th, 2007 at 6:37 pm

• Manhattan has more carts than anywhere, plus more excellent restaurants than anywhere. I therefore reject the notion that a silly street vendor would actually discourage a potential restaurateur from opening up shop.

  I think people who don’t like Nuts 4 Nuts are crazy, I’m sorry. I just don’t find this point arguable. Have you actually tasted them? They’re probably one of my 10 favorite foods in the entire world. And they cost a dollar!

  It’s not my responsibility as a consumer to keep shop owners in business. That’s their responsibility. Anybody put out of business by a street cart didn’t have any place being in business in the first place.

  Mr. Softee parks outside the movie theater most summer days. Shall we kick him out, too? The pizza place next door sells ices! Sounds like cannibalization to me.

  By the way, Ignatius, you are employing a popular logical fallacy known as “false dilemma” by implying that when we pick and choose what to bring to Forest Hills from Manhattan, we have the choice of either cutting-edge restaurants or street vendors. Boldly, I suggest we can have both.

  Posted by Steve
  on July 9th, 2007 at 6:53 pm

• “Manhattan has more carts than anywhere, plus more excellent restaurants than anywhere. I therefore reject the notion that a silly street vendor would actually discourage a potential restaurateur from opening up shop.”

  Ah, but the carts are where the good restaurants aren’t. Most of the carts are in midtown, which has the worst restaurants in the city, but is littered with “cafes” that sling wraps, pizza and sushi all in the same place. That’s why street carts do well in midtown - the options for decent food are pitiful. If you give people options for great food (and I don’t need cutting-edge restaurants, I just need food that is cooked well and with care) then people don’t need street vendors. When I start seeing street vendors pop-up, I get the ill feeling we’re heading in the wrong direction. It’s the same crap that’s everywhere else, and FH is already suffering from that problem. It’s not a positive.

  Posted by Ignatius
  on July 9th, 2007 at 9:31 pm

• Ignatius, you argue that midtown has “some of the worst restuarants in the city.” Umm… while I admit that this is my own opinion, I’d be willing to bet that most people would agree with me that Sparks, Smith & Wollensky, Palm & Palm Too, Michael Jordan’s, Yama, BLT, Four Seasons, David Burke, Scalinitella, Le Cirque, Mint, Aureole, Daniel, and db Bistro Moderne would not make it onto the “worst restaurants in the city” list. And that therefore, the carts have no effect on restaurant quality and that the direction FH is headed with the carts is just fine.

  Posted by Jon Parker
  on July 9th, 2007 at 11:16 pm

• I got some pretty good falafel from a halal cart in Chelsea a couple of weeks ago. Pretty good restaurants there! And like the restaurant critic said, Midtown may not be the best restaurant area in the city, but it’s still got plenty of places that put Central Queens to shame.

  Posted by Steve
  on July 10th, 2007 at 12:30 am

• Ignatius, you argue that midtown has “some of the worst restuarants in the city.” Umm… while I admit that this is my own opinion, I’d be willing to bet that most people would agree with me that Sparks, Smith & Wollensky, Palm & Palm Too, Michael Jordan’s, Yama, BLT, Four Seasons, David Burke, Scalinitella, Le Cirque, Mint, Aureole, Daniel, and db Bistro Moderne would not make it onto the “worst restaurants in the city” list.

  Jon, that’s true, midtown has some great restaurants, but compared with the rest of the city, the number of great, accessible, affordable, “I go there once or twice a week” restaurants are lacking. I think that’s what we’re all talking about, really. For people who get to partake in company expensed power lunches, midtown can be a nice place to be. For me, and probably for most of us, we get to hit most of the restaurants you mentioned only during restaurant week, or on very special occasions.

  “And that therefore, the carts have no effect on restaurant quality and that the direction FH is headed with the carts is just fine.”

  Different neighborhoods and different geographic footprints. Three food carts in midtown goes unnoticed. Three carts on Continental has a big impact on the aesthetics and feel of the neighborhood. Sorry, I don’t want to see one of those coffee carts that sell pre-made bagels with cream cheese and fake croissants open outside of the Continental subway station. Do you? Is it because I’m afraid it would take away business from the Broadway Bakery? Hardly. I just think it would add zero value, other than convenience - and convenience is a big problem with people and their food choices. If Continental becomes food-cart row, that certainly helps define what our neighborhood is about, and it’s not something I see as advantageous. We still don’t have a great coffee shop in the area, so I certainly don’t want to see a corner coffee-cart pop up first - to me, that’s the wrong direction (just like the opening of another Starbucks would be the wrong direction).

  By the way, I know I’m the odd-man out on this one, but I appreciate all of your comments - this is a great topic and a great blog.

  Posted by Ignatius
  on July 10th, 2007 at 7:59 am

• Manhattan has a multitude of great restaurants in many different areas, including midtown. I think we are losing sight of something - street vendors in Manhattan are not taking away any business from luxury restaurants. People who decide to eat out at a nice restaurant don’t change their mind in order to eat from a street vendor. I think that having a limited number of street vendors on Austin Street would be fine, especially if they are selling things that are not available in the stores, and as long as they meet cleanliness and health standards. If there are too many such that they clog foot traffic or make the area look dumpy, or if they engage in uncleanly practices, they should be shut down.

  Posted by Peter
  on July 10th, 2007 at 9:09 am

• One poster opined that the presence of food carts on Continental Avenue will discourage the opening of good restaurants in the area. Well, I’ve been here for 30 years with no street vendors — how do you account for the dining situation not having improved during that time?

  Posted by origami
  on July 10th, 2007 at 9:43 am

• “One poster opined that the presence of food carts on Continental Avenue will discourage the opening of good restaurants in the area. Well, I’ve been here for 30 years with no street vendors — how do you account for the dining situation not having improved during that time?”

  While we have a long way to go, the dining situation has certainly improved within the last three decades. While I don’t think that street vendors would send restaurateurs running for their lives, I do think their presence degrades the quality of the neighborhood and makes FH, which is otherwise a beautiful location to open a restaurant, a less desirable location to open shop. For instance, I like the way Metropolitan is shaping up. If I lived on that Avenue I would be very excited about recent developments, as well as long standing staples. If a Halal stand opened a few feet away from Danny Brown’s, or, right alongside the cinema cafe, I would not be happy. Something would be lost for me.

  Posted by Ignatius
  on July 10th, 2007 at 10:01 am

• >

  Peter,
  Have you checked the Dept. of Health ratings lately of many of our local restaurants? I have a feeling that the carts would probably be an improvement from a sanitary perspective. It is just shameful how our local restaurants have such disdain for their customers. I realize that this is more than just a Forest Hills problem but please realize that the “dirty cart” impression unfortunately also applies to brick and mortar restaurants.

  Posted by bobbyrab
  on July 10th, 2007 at 10:58 am

• Ignatius,

  A couple of points. First, you said that midtown had some of the worst restaurants. They don’t. Most affordable? That’s a different story. Someone mentioned Chelsea. Chelsea has food carts and good, affordable restaurants. And there isn’t an iota of slowdown in restaurants opening up. Besides which, there are no restaurants on Continental and never has been as far as I can recall. Unless you count Starbucks and pizza and I don’t. The restaurants are around the corners where the streets are too narrow to even accomodate a little old lady moseying down the block with her walker, let alone a food cart. No FH area with restaurants has carts. Additionally, who’s going to say to their friends “I know you guys were thinking French, but how about some gyros instead?” If Rouge goes under because of the Halal guy… Such over the top opposition to something as minor as where I can get a box of raspberries comes across as knee-jerk reactionism.

  Second, Since the food carts are a response to the lunch/snack needs of the people who work in FH, I don’t see Metropolitan getting any food carts since there’s almost no business-office presence there. Continental, on the other hand, does have a little concentration of it. So for folks who are tired of Subway or McDonalds or Pizza, but who don’t want to or can’t afford to spend $15 for lunch somewhere at a restaurant, having a little extra choice is a good thing. Do I want to see a coffee cart? I don’t WANT to. I don’t care. The fact that there’s no good coffee shop is the fault of the bad coffee shops (reading this T-Bone?) and if it takes some poor guy with bad English to force this neighborhood to improve itself, then so be it.

  Regardless, this is clearly an argument where the con-cart people have made up their minds well in advance of the controversy, just like the pro-cart people. No one is going to convince anyone else. You think that of they were gone, we’d have a flowering of new bistros and cafes and that Value Depot would close because the space was needed by Todd English. I think that the carts are in a restaurant free area where no business is lost to anyone and that anyone who was considering speculating hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not more, in a neighborhood would look take a deeper look at the area beyond what was on the single block by the subway.

  Posted by Jon Parker
  on July 10th, 2007 at 12:35 pm

• PS - I’m sorry if I come off asshole-ish. That’s not my aim. (…maybe a little sarcastic, sure.)

  Posted by Jon Parker
  on July 10th, 2007 at 12:37 pm

• I have always been surprised that the Austin/Continental area does not have a top-flight, well-regarded restaurant. Cabana’s is good and some of the others are decent, but it does not have a real high-level restaurant like some others in Queens. Trattoria L’Incontro, Uncle Jacks, Parkside, Tournesol, Piccola Venezia and others are as good as (or better than) many of the more highly regarded Manhattan restaurants, but the Austin St. area doesn’t have anything of this quality. If friends come to this part of Queens to visit and we want to go to a nice restaurant, I would more likely take them to Pasticcio, Shiro or London Lennies than to Austin St.

  Posted by Peter
  on July 10th, 2007 at 1:42 pm

• Some would argue that Q is of that caliber, though I’ve never tried it. Some might also argue DB Wine Bar, but I was underwhelmed with the food and the menu when I ate there. Nice, but not THAT nice.

  Posted by phatcat43
  on July 10th, 2007 at 2:51 pm

• Some people don’t like Q, but I would argue that it’s on that level. If Q were in Chelsea or some other primo restaurant area, you wouldn’t think it was the greatest restaurant you’d ever tried, but it wouldn’t be out of place, either. And that’s about as good as we do! DB Danny Brown is really superlative, I think, but it’s not in that area.

  Posted by Steve
  on July 10th, 2007 at 2:59 pm

• Yes, I really meant the Austin St. area, not Metro. Q is good and I like going there, but I don’t really consider it as a stand-out type place. There are 50 places like it in Manhattan. Same with Nick’s - very good but not a real destination place. I really can’t fathom why this is.

  Posted by Peter
  on July 10th, 2007 at 3:47 pm

• After having Cabana Express tonight, I think the halal cart may be a welcome option.

  Posted by West
  on July 10th, 2007 at 8:47 pm

• yeah lately i have been passing by cabana express and it has been EMPTY with the workers just sitting doing nothing! please no other hair salon to take over that space…

  Posted by al2003od
  on July 11th, 2007 at 12:55 am

• Although the street vendors clog up a bit of space, at the end of the day they are just people trying to get by making a dollar and this is the best way they know how, personally I dont think Halal food is that bad and the prices of the fruit seem pretty good, if your coming back from a cushy corporate job(like myself) or are a stay at home mom/artist/writer/whatever than you have it a lot easier than those dudes,

  Posted by IamaTerp
  on July 12th, 2007 at 5:14 pm

• The Queens Courier highlighted this growing controversy….

  http://www.queenscourier.com/a.....news02.txt

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