"The Commission only said they won't give it a landmark hearing "at this time." That means it can be given down the line."
Michael how does this work? The key here is to get this historical structure landmarked.
Forest Hills Stadium
(145 posts) (26 voices)-
Pat 31
Member
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Posted 2 years ago # -
AnotherKGresident
Member
Sigh....
Of course I wish that the stadium were renovated and used for tennis or other performances, but this is probably unlikely.A year or so ago, I heard about the condo-conversion plans for the stadium. I was intrigued until I saw the plans, and realized the density that the developers were hoping for. I don't believe that level of density was warranted, and believe that was part of what led WSTC members to vote it down.
Something needs to be done with the site, but TRs classic free market position just wearies me. Some of the best things don't have a direct economic pay-off.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
AJsGal
Member
From NY Post columnist Andrea Peyser on May 9th:
Save this music mecca
Arthur Ashe and The Beatles played at the West Side Tennis Stadium in Forest Hills. And, way back when, I saw the Monkees, who didn't really play their instruments, in concert there. Jimi Hendrix was the opening act.
I was too little to remember. But moms went crazy that Hendrix, who years later died of a drug overdose, was hired to open for the equivalent of Justin Bieber. Now the stadium, which also hosted Frank Sinatra and the Rolling Stones -- not to mention the US Open -- is set for demolition, after the Landmarks Preservation Commission denied the sagging center landmark status.
Any old shack can get landmarked in this city (provided the site is not to be used as a mosque). Why not the wacky and storied tennis stadium?
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Posted 2 years ago # -
biker
Member
"The Commission only said they won't give it a landmark hearing "at this time." That means it can be given down the line."
Michael,
Should the club wait while the landmark commission's ruling is appealed? Can the ruling even be appealed? If not, when would they consider it again.
I just think that since they said no and the structure is privately owned, that should be the end of it.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
kaykordeath
Member
If the Palladium couldn't be saved, I fail to see how the WSTC can be.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
TALBOTRESIDENT
Member
The Palladium was saved because it was still commercially viable. The Community was not oppositional to the artists and the audiences they drew. They are in FH. Why would they Landmark a structure that cannot be properly maintained, is falling apart, cannot stage the concerts and events that would earn the money that would justify restoring the Stadium. I think the Landmarks Commission understood this and declined to Landmark the structure for this very reason. Even they realize it would be confiscation of the property without fair compensation. Michael needs to take the hint and stop the Don Quixote act already. If the community isn't willing to tolerate the concerts then they really don't want it and he needs to open his eyes and see it.
AKG: That's for the owners to decide it's their money.
What most people don't understand is that I would rather not tear it down, but unless there is a credible offer from an operator such as Live Nation or MSG it ain't happening and should go down.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
kaykordeath
Member
TR-
You misread. The Palladium was NOT saved. It was torn down and built over with dorms for NYU.
Which was my point. We hear about Dylan and The Beatles and Hendrix playing in FH time and time again. The Palladium had just as many "important" performers but could not be saved...
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Posted 2 years ago # -
TALBOTRESIDENT
Member
My bad. Just goes to show you what happens when you get married. I used to go Networking parties at that place, I guess when you're out of circulation you can't be up on all of the latest developments. As for tearing down, how much more iconic can you get than the Old Yankee Stadium, we're in the fourth or fifth incarnation of MSG. There are times when it's necessary.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
Shadow
Member
As much as I think the Stadium might look nice and may have historic value, I recognize that what TR and others are saying about venues is the more practical thought process here. As someone my age with the knowledge that I know about the venues that are generating cash right now, I don't think Forest Hills residents would be keen on allowing them into the Stadium.
In an economy like the one we're in (or even in a stable economy), it's detrimental to spend a large amount of money knowing that you're going to net a loss. If a company chooses to put up the money for the purchase, for the upkeep and the general maintenance of the structure, they're doing so at a risk that shows absolutely no prospects for a gain until years from now, which may be too late. Such may mean the closing of that company, because they're out so much money. Then the Stadium is back to where it began: not being used, neglected, and a money pit. It's a terrible business practice.
Forest Hills Gardens will not allow for a rap concert, a hip hop concert, an electro concert, or even a pop concert. Forest Hills residents are likely to complain about excess noise on street corners at 11:30PM. Could you imagine the outcry of people in the neighborhood if they hear immense fireworks going off at 11PM? Subwoofers for a concert are placed throughout the Stadium and on solid structures such as cement and at ground level, which causes for immense rocking. Those venues would rock the neighborhood so immensely that you would feel the bass of the music in McDonald Park and would clearly hear the music during the concert from Queens Blvd in Rego Park. Concerts don't usually end at 11PM... they end at 1 and 2AM. People who leave concerts are loud and sometimes drunk. Some smoke weed, some play loud music out of their cars (not nearly a tenth as loud as the stadium would). Imagine the noise from the late Shea Stadium magnified by 100, constantly, until 1AM. It just wouldn't fly here. We've spoken before about the demographics of this neighborhood: they're business people who have early hours that extend through the day, and want their sleep; they're families with young kids who probably wouldn't be tolerant of drunks and weedheads walking their streets throughout the day and night. This isn't Manhattan, or the loud parts of Brooklyn. This is a part of Queens that's modeled itself on something like "suburbia in the city".
Any and every venue company who looks to hold an event at a Stadium closely studies the demographics of a neighborhood before considering an event in that location. They need to make money. They can't worry about the historic value of what they're investing in: their priority is making money. No money = no business, which = a failing company. They can't be generous and pour money out of the goodness of their hearts, because doing so doesn't gain them the revenue they need to stay afloat. Again, without a profit, their business goes defunct and then the Stadium is once again in the place it is now.
I'm sorry... I just don't see this working out. Any venue that locals go for would generate $1000-$5000 at most per venue. How can the company who chooses to invest in the Stadium consider doing so if making even $1M may take a year? There will be no events in the dead of winter during November through February. No one goes to outdoor events unless it's April through the end of September to mid-October. Think of baseball season. Would anyone go to a baseball game in December during a snowstorm? A football game, yes: but that demographic is EXTREMELY rowdy. With football fans you're talking tailgate parties pre- and post-game, LOTS of liquor, LOTS of littering... That won't fly in Forest Hills Gardens.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
jewels
Member
Shadow--
I agree a rap concert would be wrong for FH--but pop concerts went on without incident long before you were bornFrom Wiki
n addition to tennis, the West Side stadium has also been a venue for many concerts, including ones by stars like Frank Sinatra, Bob Dylan, The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, The Who, Donna Summer and Diana Ross.A tennis match at the fictitious "Windswept Fields" in the film The Royal Tenenbaums was filmed at the West Side stadium, as was a scene where the title character and his two grandsons drive go-karts within the rafters.
As soon as late September 2010, the Tennis Stadium may be lost to high-end residential real estate development plans. A rendering of the proposed condominium development was published in "U.S. Open Stadium May Go Condo," Wall Street Journal on 11 August 2010.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
EricMM
Member
Shadow- the timing of concerts is based on the venue and the contracts signed with the performers. Many concert venues will not go past 11:00...(those darned unions, again...). In the days when I heard those concerts at the tennis stadium, they ended well before 11. Concerts in club type venues can go on all night, but concerts in theater type venues have very specific end times. I've never been to a concert at Town Hall that went on past 10:30, never at the Beacon that went past 11. I don't go to the really big venues like MSG or Nassau Colliseum. If concerts were restored at the stadium, there would be a strict cut-off point. If an act wouldn't be willing to play within those guidelines, they could choose not to play there...or, start earlier. There are still loads of artists out there who could play the tennis stadium, could draw enough of a crowd to make money on it, and not generate the ire of the neighborhood. I agree, thundering bass accompanying deafening boasts about bitches, weed, and money will not go over well with the neighborhood...although most people would probably think its just somebody parked on the corner......
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Posted 2 years ago # -
TALBOTRESIDENT
Member
I'm not sure I would consider the Beatles, Jimi Hendrix, The Who, Donna Summer or even Diana Ross at that time Pop acts. They attracted audiences at the time that were younger and in many but not all cases rowdier than what the Community is looking for. Today Diana Ross or Donna Summer are likely to attract an older crowd but one that primarily drives so it's not a real attractive location.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
junost
Member
Ha, Justin Bieber @ Forest Hills Tennis Stadium.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
TALBOTRESIDENT
Member
Eric if there were acts willing to play the Stadium don't you think impressarios would have stepped up if they felt that they could make money. The problem is the acts that are going to make money the neighborhood isn't going to tolerate and the audiences for the acts that will require parking. Manhattan is different, you have a transportation system that is designed to go back and forth to Manhattan and within it. Someone from a Westchester or LI suburb isn't likely going to train it, especially in the evening to FH. I'm not sure even many from Manhattan would for that matter, many of them are wealthy enough to own cars and would probably not want to take the subway to FH from the UES at night. IF they had parking it might work.
Solution is to disassemble the thing and assemble it in Flushing Meadow. The USTA could then raise the bucks to restore it properly and use it during the open and even for concerts that Queens Theatre in the Park could not accomodate.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
Pat 31
Member
Anyway another idea I just thought of would use it as a mutli-purpose cultural arts center. It was make an awesome outdoor movie theater at dusk. Can you imagine watching Avatar on the big screen with your family on a beautiful summer's night at the Stadium?
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Posted 2 years ago # -
kaykordeath
Member
Certainly one of the more interesting suggestions.
I'm not sure about showing JUST a film..but what about a movie with live orchestra accompanying on the score...seeing the Lord of the Rings movies at Radio City with complete live orchestral score is QUITE the experience...and done outdoors could lend to the fun for select theaters....But the size at what cost? Is $30-50 dollars a ticket at capacity going to be enough? And if not, will people want to spend 60-90?
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Posted 2 years ago # -
Pat 31
Member
I actually spent 35 bucks on a silent movie a few years ago with live sound effects and Laurie Anderson narrating. It was very interesting to say the least! They had a different narrator every night. Her husband Lou Reed narrated the following performance.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
jewels
Member
TR--people from LI would not have a problem. Car to LIRR. People from Manhattan who have cars can taxi it. The old Westbury has some nice nostalgia concerts--but you need a car
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Posted 2 years ago # -
TALBOTRESIDENT
Member
Jewels: These people aren't taking the train even from the Island. What about Westchester, Northern NJ or CT They're getting in the car and going door to door. Most of these people drive to Broadway Shows what makes you think they're gonna take a train to Forest Hills. It's not even practical from a good deal of Queens.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
Pat 31
Member
Why not? If there was a nice area in Westchester or Ct. with an outdoor amphitheater with this type of entertainment surrounded by decent restaurants I would make the trip frequently by train.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
TALBOTRESIDENT
Member
How are you getting there again Pat? Going by train to Westchester or CT from here ain't no picnic it's a very long ride that's a lot quicker by car. Plus they're going to have plenty of parking over there.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
Pat 31
Member
By train. We're a train hub. My friends take the train in from the Island into Forest Hills all the time. They love it here and this would only make it that much more fun for them.
Just because you don't like a trip like this doesn't mean everybody doesn't. FH is on the way into and out of Manhattan. Quick stop. People could incorporate it into their plans when they travel to/from the city.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
TALBOTRESIDENT
Member
Some of your friends may, but a more people from the burbs won't if parking's a hassle. What about the North Shore those trains don't go to FH, think most of these people are shlepping to Woodside and switching over to go back to FH. They're gonna get on the Northern State or the LIE door to door in less than a half an hour with little or no traffic late at night. How many of those people do you really think are going to be standing on the platform at Jamaica Station after 11PM. Think someones gonna take a train to Grand Central and then two subway trains to FH when Scarsdale is about a half hour car ride. C'mon get real. This is a big reason why the Open left.
Look if there was parking for about 2000 cars it might work. It just doesn't make sense otherwise.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
Pat 31
Member
Build it and they will come. All it takes is thinking outside of the box. It would work.
If you would've told me years ago I would be hanging out in an abandoned pool in McCarren Park Brooklyn on a summer's night I would've said you were crazy.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
TALBOTRESIDENT
Member
Pat go to the Open between what they have and Citifield there's a lot of parking. The problem is that what's acceptable to the neighborhood is for a predominately older suburban audience, like most of the people who live in the Gardens. They're getting in the car and if it's a hassle they won't go.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
Pat 31
Member
I'm curious - why did the WSTC turn McEnroe's offer down?
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Posted 2 years ago # -
TALBOTRESIDENT
Member
I don't think Mc Enroe was prepared to drop 12 million personally and couldn't line up investors. Again which operator has approached the Club with a serious offer to run the Stadium as a profit making venue. No one.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
EricMM
Member
TR- Nobody will book concerts at a closed decrepit stadium. First the place has to be fixed up and reopened before it can book...but once it does, I'm sure that there are plenty of acts. There's more to touring performers than hip-hop and oldies acts. There are plenty of acts that can substantially sell seats there, in all lines of music. Last I heard music coming out of the stadium it was reggae...about 10 years ago. It was an afternoon concert.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
TALBOTRESIDENT
Member
Eric: If there were enough money making acts don't you think an operator would approach the WSTC with a plan including the 12 million plus modernization of the amenities. The problem is not the decrepit Stadium, they can get the money if the business is there. Problem is the business that's there would cause the neighborhood to go up in arms. Read an earlier post there were major problems in the streets after the Reggae concert. What you're talking about either isn't profitable enough or it would be opposed by the community. The reality is no operator is interested.
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Posted 2 years ago # -
rego-forester
Member
The reality is that the West Side Tennis Club has NOT approached potential investors for years, and last summer, they were hoping for a quick-fix, which is more detrimental to the club's existence in the long-run. Such developments take time.
Which sounds more logical?
1. Building condos on site (which likely wouldn't be permitted due to restrictive covenants of the FHG) would give the WSTC pocket money which will run out
VS.
2. Restoring and reopening the stadium for a multitude of events, yielding greater economic return for the club and surrounding community. A garage can be built under the parking lot most likely, and/or a shuttle bus service can be implemented.
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Posted 2 years ago #
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