http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news%2Flocal%2Fnew_york&id=8251520
Two Shot in Road Range incident in KG (125th and Austin)
(27 posts) (12 voices)-
jewels
Member
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Posted 1 year ago # -
KGResident
Member
So glad I have a garage! Although something sounds fishy here but I will not speculate.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
movester
Member
You don't mess with people who drive vans period,
I sure hope the brother who survived
learned his lesson.
I bet they(brothers) were the ones who instigated this.
Some people think they are invincible I guess.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
jewels
Member
The story in the NYPost gives more details
ns. double-park road-rage slay
BY LARRY CELONA and C.J. SULLIVAN
Last Updated: 6:53 AM, July 15, 2011
A man was shot dead and his brother wounded last night in a road-rage argument that sparked a brawl over a double-parked vehicle, cops said.
The violence took place on a quiet street in Kew Gardens at around 8:15.
The brothers began arguing with two men in a white van on Austin Street near 84th Road -- and the battle escalated into a fistfight.
One of the men went back to his van, bearing Connecticut plates, picked up a gun and opened fire.
A 25-year-old man was killed and his 30-year-old brother was wounded. Their names were withheld pending family notification.
The gunman and his friend fled in the van.
The injured man was in stable condition at Jamaica Hospital.
"I heard arguing and yelling and then four pops from a gun," a local resident told The Post.
"I went out and saw a guy lying on his back. A girl was crying in the street."
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Posted 1 year ago # -
MadFH
Member
From what I am reading, one brother double-parked, and was talking to the other brother on the street. The van could not past the double-parked car. Probably some words were shouted by the people in the van, the brothers approached the van, and a verbal altercation started. I am not sure which party was the instigator.
The brothers then took their sweet time to get in the car and move it around the corner where they stopped. The van drove in the same direction, passed them, stopped half block in front, one guy got out, walked back to the brothers, pulled out a gun, shot one brother in the face. The other brother attempted to wrestle the gun away from the shooter but got shot in the chest, and later died. The shooter walked to their van and the van drove off.
The two guys in the van should be caught pretty soon, apparently they were regulars in a local deli, and probably work on some plumbing project in the area.
To me it looks like a good lawyer can successfully defend the shooter, claiming the brothers instigated the whole altercation?
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Posted 1 year ago # -
junost
Member
MadFH, I don't see how any lawyer will be able to justify a homicide because some driver was being a prick.
However there is a problem with inconsiderate drivers in this area. Usually it's over a parking spot. In fact just last week some crazy fellow swung around and made a u turn into a parking spot I was slowly trying to back into, cutting over the 2 double yellow lines.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
Queens Moll
Member
I have to agree with you, Junost. The shooter certainly can't claim self-defense if the brothers got into their car and drove around the corner and couldn't be considered a threat to the shooter. At that point, the shooter should have just kept going and not looked to pursue things any further.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
MadFH
Member
I agree with you both, but as I said, we do not know the full picture yet.
Once the van guys are caught, what if the shooter's story is "I had a change of heart and decided to go apologize to them for having to talk with them in a heated manner. however they started punching me, at which point I pulled out my licensed gun"
And a good lawyer can probably destroy all the witness testimonies in court.Just like that time early last year when a guy knifed two people to death on the subway train, then ran away, and everyone thought it was some crazy psycho. Then he turned himself in and we all learned that he was attacked by a mob of drunk thugs and was protecting himself.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
Queens Moll
Member
That's a pretty far-fetched scenario you're suggesting. For one thing, I seriously doubt that anyone who verbally berates two guys in a car for double-parking is going back to apologize. Secondly, did he take his gun with him when he went to say, "I'm sorry?" Are you saying he made his apolgies, the brothers punched him THEN he went back to his van for the gun? If that's the case, he was already removed from further physical assault. All he had to do was get back in the van and drive off.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
MadFH
Member
I agree, this is far fetched. Just thinking about the defense.
It is quite possible the brothers initiated the verbal argument, and the shooter initially talked back. Then when both cars cleared that tight spot, he saw the brothers pull over, also stopped, and walked to them to simply say "you see, that was easy, no hard feelings guys". They again started escalating, and assaulted him, and then he pulled a gun he always had on him. I know many of these plumbers and handymen pack because they are often called to shady places and slums with all kinds of dangerous people.What else could have happened? The plumbers have been seen in the local deli on multiple days, they obviously do some work in the area and are known. They have been arguing for a few minutes with the brothers, and probably a small crowd gathered to see what is going on. What SANE person would (after all this commotion and attention) stop their car, walk back half-block and cold-blooded shoot the two brothers? It is obvious you will get caught. It is just insanity to do this.
So I think the defense is either self-defense, or insanity.
I guess my life is boring that I am thinking about this.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
Queens Moll
Member
OK, Mad. :) I guess all the defense attorney has to do is create reasonable doubt. your life obviously isn't any more boring than mine - I'm posting with you! LOL ...
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Posted 1 year ago # -
MadFH
Member
yeah, we probably both had a long tiring week. :)
I am just trying to wind down a bit.
Well Queens Moll, have a good and fun weekend there! :)
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Posted 1 year ago # -
Queens Moll
Member
Fridays are always wind-down evenings. You have a fun weekend, too.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
sjf
Member
Neither self-defense nor insanity is going to fly. What most people don't realize, anyway, is that defendants who are successfully found NGRI often spend more time in forensic mental health facilities than they would have spent in prison.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
MadFH
Member
The Post now has this
"....witnesses told The Post that the brothers' double-parked Cadillac Escalade blocked a white van from making a turn onto Austin Street near 84th Road at about 8:15 p.m.
Though the van driver appeared to wait patiently until the brothers had pulled away after about three minutes, an argument exploded a block away...."And NY1 has a video on their site where a witness says that the brother's car (huge Escalade???) finally moved "at a spitefully slow rate of speed".
The Post also gives a testimony of a friend (biased?) of the brothers who was there and saw the van guy come back to the brothers after the conflict seemingly ended:
"He [the van guy] started going through his pockets, and when [Roberto] saw him coming, he jumped on top of him to make sure he didn't get the gun out of his pocket. And that's when he shot him in the chest at point blank."So this witness admitted that the gun only appeared when Roberto "jumped on top of him"?
Self-defense? And the jury could easily be convinced that the brothers were the bad guys: we all drive and we all have seen our share of rude young men on the road in fancy cars, showing no regard for other drivers.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
QTSPY
Member
I can't believe ANYONE could justify a murder out of devious parking practices. I guarantee everyone of you have been inconvenienced by many of these double parked people before or everyone of us have been the offenders before, but we don't go back to our cars to grab a gun and pull the trigger neither others do that to us when we double park. this is plain homicide or else we're all in danger to be killed just for living in a parking unfriendly city. I bet the nypd wont find the perps because the victims are hispanic and because the perpetrators may be snitches in the area conducting organized crime.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
Pat 31
Member
"I can't believe ANYONE could justify a murder out of devious parking practices"
Why not?
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Posted 1 year ago # -
hojo5150
Member
Doubtless that the murderer felt "disrespected". Respect comes before all else in our culture. That's why rape is sometimes viewed as a more heinous crime than murder - I guess it's better to be dead than violated. We've all heard of murder mystery cruises, but never a rape mystery cruise.
It is all about respect.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
MadFH
Member
QTSPY, no one was trying to justify the killing. I was just trying to guess what the defense story for the shooter would be. I think if he was indeed physically attacked by the brothers first when he walked up to them, his shooting would have been in self-defense, and it would no longer be because of the parking habits, it would be because of physical danger to the van guy.
And I think the brothers were not Latinos - Diogenes and Jovanny are Latin American first names??
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Posted 1 year ago # -
Queens Moll
Member
"The Post also gives a testimony of a friend (biased?) of the brothers who was there and saw the van guy come back to the brothers after the conflict seemingly ended:"
Even if the friend is biased, if the van driver drove past the car then got out and went back to the brothers' car, the jury would hopefully see that this could have been avoided had the van driver just continued on.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
MadFH
Member
police sketch is released, they say it is a guy of Russian or Eastern European descent.
http://www.wpix.com/news/wpix-memorial-road-rage-incident,0,3208137.storyThat face in the sketch looks like Charles Bronson to me.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
EricMM
Member
Very, very few people are acquitted by reason of insanity...and those very few are, as SJF mentioned, likely to spend the rest of their lives institutionalized. The only ones who come to mind are John Hinckley and Al Fentress, both of whom are still institutionalized....and then there was everyone's favorite psycho, Ed Gein...........
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Posted 1 year ago # -
MadFH
Member
Yes Eric - but being institutionalized is better than imprisoned, I would think?
And they are already questioning one man
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/queens/police_question_man_about_fatal_DDW3P7wfRVVp2dT2kXAsGO
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Posted 1 year ago # -
EricMM
Member
I'm not so sure that there is that much of a difference....I guess institutionalization is safer, but I would also assume that these guys are so heavily medicated that nothing much matters to them anyway.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
sjf
Member
Major difference being that they would often (excepting, say, those receiving life without parole or the death penalty) spend much more time institutionalized than they would have spent in prison (sometimes decades for what would have been a few years' sentence), so they tend not to get off as easily as they'd assumed.
A lot of them seem to think of an insanity defense as a get-out-of-jail-free card, but it's not.
Except for those who illnesses are refractory, they are not so doped up that they no longer care about anything, though they certainly may experience some fatigue and lethargy as a side effect of medication or become apathetic about their situations for other reasons, including indefinite confinement.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
MadFH
Member
so what is the latest here?
I am surprised the shooter is still not found.
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Posted 1 year ago # -
kg97
Member
So what's deal no progress on this?
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Posted 1 year ago #
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